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Jim McMahon on BYU Honor Code: Find Girls Who Keep Their Mouths Shut

By now we have all heard the Brandon Davies story or some variation of it. The BYU center was suspended for the remainder of the 2011 season when he violated the school’s honor code. While it originally did not appear to be a sex issue, it was later revealed that Davies admitted to having sex and rumors swirled that he impregnated a female.

Former Chicago Bears quarterback Jim McMahon played his college ball at BYU.  In an interview with ESPN Radio on Monday, which Pro Football Talk shared with us, he shared his thoughts on some of the current issues in the NFL regarding illegal hits and the uncertain labor situation.  McMahon’s comments on those topics were a yawn compared to what he had to say about the BYU honor code.

“You had to find girls who kept their mouths shut,” McMahon said when asked about how he managed to stay on the field while attending BYU.

Can you say candid?  We all know college kids are going to be college kids no matter what school they attend, but BYU’s president must have cringed when he found out such a high-profile alumnus had that to say about the honor code.  When the news about Davies’ suspension first came out, part of me didn’t feel badly for him because anyone who attends BYU knows what they’re getting themselves into.  McMahon’s comment just makes me feel bad Davies forgot to wrap it up.



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  • Anonymous

    It’s a metaphor Einstein.

    Two different paths followed by two BYU QB’s and some would argue Jim was the most talented of the two.

    One reached his full potential the other did not, based upon life choices.

    Too deep for you Francis?

  • Anonymous

    They used him knowing who he was and then dismissed him. They always knew who he was. Plain and simple they are complete hypocrites. You believing Joseph Smiths pile of BS from the 1800s making you an idiot is a whole other story.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NANDEZCQ2MRAIBY7DW4IU3DK44 lady_guinevere_3

    if you think their code of honor is bad at BYU try breaking the code of honor at the University of Virginia and see what happens if you get caught there. They all know what is expected when they sign these. Man up it is the rule of the school not those attending. The school has its principles. If you cannot keep yours you deserve the consequences

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NANDEZCQ2MRAIBY7DW4IU3DK44 lady_guinevere_3

    if you think their code of honor is bad at BYU try breaking the code of honor at the University of Virginia and see what happens if you get caught there. They all know what is expected when they sign these. Man up it is the rule of the school not those attending. The school has its principles. If you cannot keep yours you deserve the consequences

  • Anonymous

    “Those who didn’t were few and far between and definitely the exception” – Exactly how do you know that. Maybe those that got caught were the ones who “were few and far between.” I always love people who make definitive statements about things which cannot be proven.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s see… He is kicked out of school right after he was seen as having no more use to them, and he’s not interested in singing their idiotic fight song. I wonder why……..

    Sorry Dopey, different people react differently to concussions. There’s a reason that cars have adjustable seats. People are different. Of course in some places and situations they are not allowed to have differences, just expected to conform to 150 old BS.

  • Anonymous

    You just don’t get it windbag, It’s right up your alley and the sad part is that you know it so well but can’t be resilient enough to peservere. Too bad you can’t go back in time to get a whiff of the athlete’s jock-straps. I am done porky!

  • Anonymous

    I dated my fair share of LDS girls..and I even converted until I figured out all religion -to me- is nothign more than modern day mythology..but yet I digress

    Most LDS girls I knew were amazing..beautiful..intelligent..caring

    ..but much like Catholic girls or “preacher’s daughters” there were others who were the wildest chix i knew..drinking, sex, partying..their motto?: Bring it!

    ..never went to BYU (knew I didn’t have it in me to be a monk)

    ..but to have all those kids..away from mommy and daddy for the first time in their lives..all their li’l hormones goin’ crazy?

    c’mon..that’s just not being real..of course stuff like that has to go on

  • Anonymous

    can I also mention the 800lb gorilla in the room..or are we still gonna act like it ain’t there?

    I’m 40 and it’s been a few years since I gave the LDS church a chance (and for the record of all the religions I give the LDS church the most credit for actually “walkin’ what they talk”)

    ..but as I recall, the Mormons were not that “diverse”

    ..any chance..Mr Davies being made an “example” of for impregnating his girlfriend may have less to do with young love getting outta hand and more to do with the fact that Mr Davies is not entirely white?

    ..never been one to help the black man play the race card..he does enuf of that all on his own

    ..but there weren’t a lot of blacks in the LDS church when I was involved with it

    ..just sayin’

  • Anonymous

    How did this discussion go so “religious”? The man broke the “Honor Code”, something that all of us do everyday! I’ll choose to error on the side of Kyle Hootman that wrote “If we were perfect, we wouldn’t need the forgiveness of a Savior” (my words paraphrased on his). That is the truth! Look in the mirror and ask yourself if the person looking back is “really” the person that they’re supposed to be. I agree that the man got off of the mark because he didn’t keep his eyes on the “Mark”. We all do that to varying degrees as we humans see it, but God doesn’t see it that way. To Him, we all play on the same, level, field in our lives and sin is sin no matter how you see it. Get the forgiveness from the only One that can give it, you and I included, and move on. “You can make choices, good or bad. You cannot choose the concequences that go with them!”

  • Anonymous

    I was wondering if you lived the principle, and all things Mormon or just the stuff you can legally get away with nowadays. I have no problem with your beliefs, but when they come in conflict with the law its not part of religion its criminal. I’m sure even you would find Jim Jones a cult leader, and not a religions leader. When it comes to Jimmy Mc. He’s has never hurt you so why are you trying so hard to act the fool? Is it true what Buddy, and Sandokkan have said or are you covering BYU’s ass because they really don’t need you, or care what you say about Jimmy. I for one have learned a lot about what that school thinks of those that go there, and I damn well would talk any young person I know from going if they were not dyed in the wool Mormon.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A7AZG3AQ7NCP4SUXWPJ44PSC5Y DanielB

    Thanks for the info… Tea has pretty small amounts I though too, but I guess that could be subjective… A good alternative is guarana, from the Brazil rain forest… Studies are showing it helps with circulation and blood pressure and many women swear by it for PMS and menopause issues… I just think that if their really is a God up there he would want us to use it responsibly and not shun his gifts..

  • Anonymous

    I’m sure BYU intened well but I disagree with how they handled this. How is something as personal as having sex a national issue? How does it pertain to college athletics? How does suspending him serve him or the university well? Isn’t this issue between Davies, the woman and Jesus Christ? Maybe his bishop? It seemed like they were making an example of Davies for propaganda- so everyone could see their high standards on display. It made a national example of a person sin. A person by most standards is a good human being. I’m pretty sure Jesus Christ wouldn’t have done that.

  • Anonymous

    No, they were not trying to make an example out of him because of his race. Race has nothing to do with it. He signed and committed to the Honor Code. He self reported that he had not lived up to that code. He is making amends to that at this time. BYU has given the same punishment to other athletes in the past and will if necessary in the future whether they are Black, White, Hispanic, Polynesian or Native American.

  • Anonymous

    Incoherent Alert!

  • Anonymous

    you got recruited….yea right….

  • Anonymous

    Those Mormons really get under your skin, eh Bucko?

    Should we round them up and tatoo serial numbers on them?

    Would that soothe your misery little fella?

    I remember you… roaming ’round these here parts….carrying a bucket of hot tar and a torn and tattered down filled pillow.

    “they leave it, but, then they can’t leave it alone.”

  • Anonymous

    Oh apparently you do.

    Nobody forced Jim to attend BYU. They openly stipulate it’s not for everyone. And if you and your ilk are not comfortable with their policies, then it’s one less “of your kind” that they would have to deal with.

    However, if an individual attends BYU, signs the Honor Code, once a year, and contracts to abide by said code, and then, knowingly goes against it and finds ways around it, and then 30 year later isstill advising others how to “cheat” it……

    Then you tell me, oh pillar of moral ethics, who’s the hypocrite?

  • Anonymous

    Actually it is their hypocrisy that infuriates me you simpleton. I’ve traveled in more than 60 countries and know people of many religions, but the BS, hypocrisy and bigotry I have heard from you folks is second to none.

    Anyway, you are boring me. I wont waste my time responding again. You are a dullard.

  • Anonymous

    BYU didn’t make this a national issue. The media did. If BYU was not ranked in the Top 10 at the time that Davies kept his honor, no one would have heard about this. If not for reporters this would have stayed between him, the girl, the Bishop and the Honor Code office.
    There are several athletes every year that are disaplined in one way or another for breaking the Honor Code. A lot of them just go under the radar because they confess, or are found out, in the off-season or after the athlete finishes school, ala Jim. Keep in mind that not only are athletes held to this standard, regular students must follow the Code and are disaplined just the same as athletes.
    Don’t be so quick to say the Church/BYU was looking for publicity by suspending him because they had nothing to do with the story getting out.

  • Anonymous

    He did not imprenate anyone, stop spreading lies.

  • Anonymous

    60 Countries? I doubt you’ve been to 60 Counties in your lifetime.

    Calling you out, you are a liar.

    Game, Set, Match…
    QED

  • Anonymous

    Hey Lukey,

    Religion by definition is not supported by facts. Its all made up mythology. The only reason to believe in a religion is a lack of honest examination and rational thought. Period. All religions.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BVNWJ3AMFXJZIZO43Q2LIDRURY Scott Duffy

    In an attempt to keep up with Mormon “code,” is it still acceptable to have multiple wives? Are black people invited in to your same Heaven now? If not, how or when did those things change? The church isn’t actually admitting that John Smith somehow misinterpreted those early messages, are they? If so, is there a chance he may have gotten anything else wrong? You know, like whether the act that happens between young men and women, whether married or not, is natural? It must have required a lot of mental notes and many years to transform God and Jesus’ words to John that day in to the literary gospel the church espouses today. I think most would agree that would be a tremendous amount of information for one man to notate and/or remember for that long, as opposed to say any of the traditional religions where thousands bared witness to the proclaimed events. Or, am I misinformed, and another LDS prophet the rest of the world isn’t privy to, again went by themselves in to the forest for revelation; who also received a personal visit from God and Jesus Christ, Whom instructed this new prophet those aforementioned “codes” regarding bigamy and racism should change? Can you please shed some light on who the new prophet might be that God and Jesus spoke to most recently? Most would agree that BYU provides a very good education, certainly better than the three years of formal education John Smith received in the late 1800’s. Thus, I’m curious how many of your classmates you believe had the skill set to memorize everything God and Jesus would have to tell them to base an entire new church concept on? Again, please help me out… Did John Smith maybe miss some things here or there when speaking to God and Jesus? Or, did a new prophet go in to the forest by himself recently? Also, just to be clear… Mormon’s believe it’s better for a 50 year-old man to have sex with his 15 year-old bride in a forced marriage, than for two 20 year-old consenting adults to make love in college out of wedlock? Whether it was John Smith or the prophet getting that one wrong doesn’t matter, I don’t agree with any of it.

  • seancharleson56

    If you recall the media’s messages, they all included the school’s official statement that Davies broke the honor code and was suspended from the team.

    I attend BYU currently and I was there when all the speculation about what he had done was going on, both inside the school and out (there was an article that talked about how he had to have done something more than “drink coffee” to be kicked off the team, I can’t remember who wrote it but it was true.) He came forward and spoke to the media to tell them what happened. FOXSports.com’s headlines for about 2 weeks included ‘BYU”s Davies suspened for having sexual relations.” He said it, not the school.

    Also, the school did it in the opposite way of that which Buddy_Maxwell was complaining about the McMahon situation. Instead of brushing it under the rug, waiting out the NCAA tournament and then kicking him off, they did it with 2 season games, the conference tournament, and the NCAA tournament remaining.

    Now, many of these people who are posting against BYU really have a problem with Mormons in general. I cannot say why; there have always been people who hate others, e.g. slavery, holocaust. But in all reality, if a person does not want to obey the honor code, then why would they go to BYU? Seems to me like a silly thing to do.

    Now 99summers, you brought up a good point about what Jesus Christ would have done. I’m sure that we can look at many of the posts that people have written on this comment chain and say the exact same thing that you said: Jesus Christ wouldn’t have done that.

  • seancharleson56

    Just because a show has a fanbase, it doesn’t mean they can’t make things up to entertain and generate profit. They added a lot of little details into it that weren’t there before, or changed things to make them seem more ridiculous and comic.

    As for your description of the Book of Mormon, it sounds like you have done the same: changing things or adding little details to make it seem more ridiculous and comic. Was your purpose to entertain or to hurt? Let’s think about your description logically, shall we?

    How in the world would the Jews have walked to America? There is an ocean between America and Africa, my friend.

    How could the “dark-skinned” Lamanites have been exterminated when the native americans are still alive today? Obviously, you are a little mixed up on your facts, good sir.

    Would it have hurt to crack the book open a little before making such defacing and discriminating comments? Obviously you didn’t because the first part of the Book of Mormon contains illustrations, which include one of them on a boat. Maybe before you decide to hate something that’s different form what you think/believe, you should try to learn about it, rather than believing rumors that have been spread for years and years, and still aren’t true.

  • seancharleson56

    Personally, I do think that Jesus Christ was married, and that He did have a wife here on earth. It is not doctrine of the LDS church that He did, but going by the same logic you presented, it makes sense, doesn’t it? Obviously, He is living with the Father.

    As for bigamy: the LDS church began in 1830, while polygamy as a church practice began in 1843, separate from the formation of the church. Polygamy ended as a church practice in 1893, well over a century ago. As for those still practicing polygamy, they aren’t members of the LDS church.

    To answer your question about why a woman did not have two wives, you have to understand why polygamy was initiated at all by God to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: it was to raise up posterity (or children) so that they would have large families. Now, a woman can only be impregnated once every 9 months, regardless of how many men she has relations with. It is therefore infeasible that a woman have more than one husband if the purpose of doing so is to have a large family, because she will have the same amount of children as with the single husband. Polygamy was not for sexual diversity, although many look at it now and see it as such.

    Hopefully this was able to help you understand.

  • Anonymous

    Because you asked direct questions, and I don’t sense any insincerity in your intentions, I’ll try to answer your questions the best I can.

    1. You can only get to the top layer of heaven by being married… Is Jesus then not up at the top level?

    In John 14:2-3, Jesus speaks to his Apostles a little about what eventually happens to Man (and Woman) after this life:

    John 14:2 – In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    John 14:3 – And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

    Obviously, Jesus is at the top level. He is the Savior of all mankind – the only one we can look to and receive forgiveness of our sins. In our theology, we talk of three basic levels, or ‘Kingdoms’ – Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. Within each ‘Kingdom’ are also many ‘Mansions’, or levels. Anyone who obeys the commandments, repented for their sins, and has received the necessary ordinances are eligible for the Celestial kingdom, whether they’re married or not. So yes, you can obtain the Celestial Kingdom without being married. You would need to understand more about our theology for me to explain any more to you other than this.

    As far as Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene – we have no doctrine to support or debunk this. I have my own personal opinion on the subject, but that’s all it is – my opinion.

    2. The practice of Polygamy – why not Polyandry?

    There are reasons for this – some cultural, some practical. Although I’ve studied this in detail, a simple explanation simply won’t do – there’s a LOT to it (some of it relating to sex, much of it not related to sex at all). The best I can do right now is to refer you to the Old Testament. If you believe the Old Testament is the word of God, you therefore have to believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Solomon (before he started marrying wives that brought the worship of Baal into Israel), and David (before his sins with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband) polygamous relationships were sanctioned by God. Funny thing is, in the Book of Mormon – writings we hold sacred, just as we do the Bible – God commanded the opposite to be done amongst his people:

    Jacob 2:27 – Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

    Jacob 2:28 – For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

    It seems to me that God allows Polygamy when it benefits his children (his children = all of us – you and me and everyone else), but prohibits it when it is not to our benefit, which is the case today.

    Why not Polyandry (A Woman having more than one Husband)? Again, there is more involved here than sex. To fully understand it, you need to understand more basic principles. This would require this response to be much, much longer.

    For those of you who are sincerely looking for the answers to these questions, I hope this helps.

    For those trolls that are only out to make fun, I would simply quote Proverbs 14:9, then Job 21:3 –

    “Fools make a mock at sin; but among the righteous there is favour”

    “Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5JLYQOU6B7EFKXGGNRMQQTWDEM MichaelT

    People go to the school and abide by your ridiculous “Honor Code” so they can go to college and make a better life for themselves for free. A college education is not something everyone can afford.

    What is the justification for not letting students drink, coffee or otherwise, or have sex with each other? I’m really curious actually.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, as a matter of fact I did play D-1 football and get recruited. No way I would sign a contract like that. No drinking (alcohol, soda or coffee), no jeans to class, short hair, no sex…etc. I know kids that got kicked out of BYU for those violations…of course they didn’t bring in the revenue like JM did…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Aaron.M.Loosje Aaron Losee

    Coffee and tea contain tanic acid, tanic acid has the effect on an individuals stomach and intestines similar to turning it into an old leather glove, also coffee does the same thing WOW potato chips do to an individual.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Aaron.M.Loosje Aaron Losee

    The Y is a private college, there are plenty of other great schools in the state and depending on your dicipline of intrest probably better ones to attend. The whole point of attending BYU is having the opportunity to submerse yourself into the LDS subculture, to surround yourself with like minded individuals for the bennifit of enlightening your soul. That’s not for everybody and it wasn’t for me. I never served a mission instead I served for 6 years in the USArmy and picked up some tattoos, piercings, kids and bad habbits. Religion is a personal choice and while it’s not required at BYU the standards set forth by that religion are expected to be maintained. If you can get a free ride at the Y then you can get a free ride somewhere else, if you really want to go to the Y just obey the rules. The Army had rules.

  • Anonymous

    The fact is that an “Honor Code” depends on a person to be “honorable” and choose to comply with the code. Brandon Davies broke the code because he is human and made a choice act in a manner which was not consistent with the code. But because he is honorable, he self-reported and accepted the consequences of his actions. You could even argue that he was grateful for the consequences that he received, because he sought them out. I’m quite certain that there are other student athletes and non-athlete students who break the code, much the same as Jim McMahon. The difference is in the fact that Brandon Davies had the honor to stand up for what he said he would. And I believe that he was given lenience because of this… he was allowed to stay at the school, and not expelled as he could have been… running laps is really not a realistic consequence if you understand what the Honor Code is about. I wasn’t offended by Jim McMahon’s comments, as I’m sure they were true. But I am slightly offended when people want to denigrate the Honor Code because they think it is unrealistic. For every BYU student who breaks the Honor Code, there are hundreds who live it faithfully everyday. And there are millions of memebers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who strive to live the values that are represented by the Honor Code. We don’t live this way to be uppity or holier than thou, we live this way because we believe that this is how our Savior, Jesus Christ wants us to live. WE ALL FAIL AT SOME POINT, but because Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins, we believe that we have the opportunity to be forgiven if we truly and sincerely repent.
    Sorry for the lengthy post, but I had something to say… I hope it all makes sense, and that it might make you look into what the Honor Code is really all about. Thanks for reading.

  • Anonymous

    In response to your question; the justification for the Honor Code is that BYU is a school that is owned by and represents the standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Members of the church strive to live the same standards that are represented in the BYU Honor Code everyday of our lives. We believe that our Savior Jesus Christ not only wants us to live these standards, but that He has commanded us to live these standards. Most, but not all of the students at BYU are members of the church. ALL of the students however, agree to live the standards of the Honor Code. Your assertion that the students are compelled to sign the Honor Code in order to receive a free education may hold some water concerning students on scholarship, but even then I doubt that BYU was the only school who offered them a full-ride. As for the rest of the students, tey are paying tuition to receive an education at one of the top-rated universities in the country, and many of them choose BYU for the specific reason that they want to be in the atmosphere that is created by students and faculty who are living the Honor Code!! I know that many people might find this hard to believe, but it is absolutely true.
    If your question was meant to be specific to the restrictions placed on coffee and pre-marital sex, then I offer you this: If you believe in God, and you believe that He loves you, and you believe that you can return to His presence after you die by keeping His commandments, and you believe that His commandments include not partaking in certain things that are available to you here on Earth, then it is logical to think that you would not want to partake in those things. This is what members of the church believe. The Honor Code is in place to create an atmosphere consistent with this. I am only aware of a handful of schools who hold these values. If a student doesn’t want to live this way, there are literally thousands of other schools that they can choose. And believe me, if they can get accepted to BYU, they can get accepted elsewhere. BYU’s admissions requirements are pretty high. Hope this answers your questions. If it doesn’t, I hope you keep looking for the answers!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OUXULE7TYXJPNU4KNMBRIQ46Z4 Jerry M

    Oh please. I doubt you and your friends lived by the honor code give me a break. Get off your high horse. You do know that single for that begins with an M and some use the J word is also a sin right? Please tell us that you honored that, we need a good laugh.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OUXULE7TYXJPNU4KNMBRIQ46Z4 Jerry M

    Oh please. I doubt you and your friends lived by the honor code give me a break. Get off your high horse. You do know that single for that begins with an M and some use the J word is also a sin right? Please tell us that you honored that, we need a good laugh.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bat-Khan/100000986764163 Bat Khan

    ha ha ha, U morons. u have no idea what these guys r talking about do ya?